External QL-SD

[vanpeebles]

Put me down for a ram expansion too

[prime]

The package of QL-SD and RAM extension sounds very interesting. A quick question just for info, as I'd like to know if it would be possible to put QL-SD, RAM extension (and maybe a floppy controller) on one card for the expansion slot ... Just out of curiosity.

I'm kinda working on that one, no promises as to time scales, but I sent the prototype board off for fabrication on Monday.

I have a prototype running with Floppy & QUBIDE, and with an add on board QL-SD, the boards I just sent for manufacture have Floppy, RAM and SD, basically a Trump Card with SD built on.

Pictures on facebook here : https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... c51a75fe30 the pictures are public so you shouldn't need an FB account.

The main stumbling block at the moment is getting floppy code that it would be legal to distribute, QL-SD (and QUBIDE) are both GPL so no probs there.

Cheers.

Phill.

[Derek_Stewart]

Hi,

The pictures on Facebook look great.

Do you plan to produce the board, I would certainly buy one.

[Peter]

The package of QL-SD and RAM extension sounds very interesting. A quick question just for info, as I'd like to know if it would be possible to put QL-SD, RAM extension (and maybe a floppy controller) on one card for the expansion slot ... Just out of curiosity.

I was actually tempted to design this myself, and ordered all the prototyping parts some time ago. Unlike the ROM port solutions (both internal and external), it blocks the expansion slot for (Super) Gold Cards. But since many QL refuse to work reliably with the QL-SD plus (S)GC combination anyway, this disadvantage has become less important. The expansion slot solution has the advantage that mICE or external ROMs would work together with QL-SD.

I added a Flash ROM which could hold QDOS, Minerva, or something else as a jumper-selectable operating system. Allowing SMSQ/E for the QL. I also added PS/2 option for mouse/keybaord, not promising driver support.

Why did I not do it? The primary answer is: It would have further delayed the Q68. The secondary answer is: A more modular situation, where QL-SD and RAM are separate, makes it easier to finish the designs and plan production.

[Derek_Stewart]

I think the reality is that the market is desperate for a new storage device for the QL - if it plugs into the ROM port and therefore does not require the user to open up the QL, remove ROM chips and switch to Minerva, then it is bound to be a winner and get even more people after it.

A lot of people have QLs as a result of a collection, but then have no means of getting software on them to use them (due to the microdrive cartridges being so unreliable - and lack of repaired cartridges out there!).

However, they want to keep the QL as original as possible, therefore an expansion which means opening the QL goes against their requirements. Also Minerva is not the best platform for using older QL sofware (as not all of it works, or you have to remember to run the QL in dual screen mode).

Then all we need is a cheap and readily available RAM expansion

Hi Rich,

The problems with Minerva is bad programming.

I would use Minerva over !JS, JM etc...

[Peter]

I have a prototype running with Floppy & QUBIDE, and with an add on board QL-SD, the boards I just sent for manufacture have Floppy, RAM and SD, basically a Trump Card with SD built on.

Saw this after I posted my own message. Do you use Flash ROM, and can it hold opreating system(s) also?

Will it eventually be smaller, so it does not stick out of the QL?

The main stumbling block at the moment is getting floppy code that it would be legal to distribute, QL-SD (and QUBIDE) are both GPL so no probs there.

SMSQ/E is free software now - far too late for major hardware developments - but it is. And it contains a floppy driver.

Might be worth considering a SMSQ/E port to the QL. Maybe it is even possible to separate the floppy code from the rest, but I doubt that would be easier than a complete port.

[Peter]

A more general thought... does IDE still make any sense?

QL-SD also uses the Qubide filesystem, and runs at same or faster speed.

Everybody can get an SDHC card for the price of a beer, so re-using old IDE harddisks or Compact Flash card does not seem to save something.

The only reason for IDE I can imagine right now, is the driver code being more mature. Is that the thought behind still supporting IDE?

[Derek_Stewart]

I have a prototype running with Floppy & QUBIDE, and with an add on board QL-SD, the boards I just sent for manufacture have Floppy, RAM and SD, basically a Trump Card with SD built on.

Saw this after I posted my own message. Do you use Flash ROM, and can it hold opreating system(s) also?

Will it eventually be smaller, so it does not stick out of the QL?

The main stumbling block at the moment is getting floppy code that it would be legal to distribute, QL-SD (and QUBIDE) are both GPL so no probs there.

SMSQ/E is free software now - far too late for major hardware developments - but it is. And it contains a floppy driver.

Might be worth considering a SMSQ/E port to the QL. Maybe it is even possible to separate the floppy code from the rest, but I doubt that would be easier than a complete port.

Hi Peter,

I will have a look at SMSQ/E on a QL-SD System, I have it running on a 768KN
Trump Card.

I do not see the point of IDE, if QLSD is running. There is no native IDE CDROM driver and most modern computers do not have optical devices builtin.

Possibile ommission on the QL is USB interface integrated into the case... but maybe I think of the Q68 now.

[Peter]

I will have a look at SMSQ/E on a QL-SD System, I have it running on a 768KN
Trump Card.

Would be nice, but keep in mind it can not be done without reprogramming the operating system (EP)ROM. Not all exception vectors can be redirected by software.

I was tempted to port my Q68 loader to the QL-SD EPROM, so SMSQ/E could be booted from SDHC. SMSQ/E is too large to fit 64K (let alone 48K) anyway. But it would require to define a new "standard" for redirection. Because a loader can not place the loaded operating system to address 0 on standard QL hardware, while the Q68 can do it. I hesitate to set such a new standard.

Another point is, SMSQ/E has become bigger and bigger after Tony Tebby. Even bigger than the standard Q60 EPROM. In case of QL very RAM consuming. Could make sense to slim it down, if possible.

Back on topic, an external QL-SD would make it easier to replace the EPROM, be it for a loader or for an SMSQ/E stub ROM.

There is no native IDE CDROM driver and most modern computers do not have optical devices builtin.

There is Atapi-CD and QCDEZE for native CDROM.
Both are for SMSQ/E and Q40/Q60, would not run out of the box.

[prime]

I have a prototype running with Floppy & QUBIDE, and with an add on board QL-SD, the boards I just sent for manufacture have Floppy, RAM and SD, basically a Trump Card with SD built on.

Saw this after I posted my own message. Do you use Flash ROM, and can it hold opreating system(s) also?

Yes it is a flash rom, but as designed it can't be programmed from the QL (the /WE line is tied high), but it may be possible to modify it so that it can. It may also be possible to override the system ROMS in the $00000-$10000 area, and replace them with ROM mapped from the flash.

Does asserting DSMCL allow you to do this ? If it does the next board has 2x512K RAMS on so may also be possible to map RAM in there too.

Will it eventually be smaller, so it does not stick out of the QL?

Maybe I'd have to re-design using surface mount chips but they are more of a pain to hand solder....and the WD1770 is only available as a DIP (or maybe as a PLCC, but that would not save us much space).

The main stumbling block at the moment is getting floppy code that it would be legal to distribute, QL-SD (and QUBIDE) are both GPL so no probs there.

SMSQ/E is free software now - far too late for major hardware developments - but it is. And it contains a floppy driver.

Might be worth considering a SMSQ/E port to the QL. Maybe it is even possible to separate the floppy code from the rest, but I doubt that would be easier than a complete port.

That's true and it does have the code for an Atari ST floppy IIRC which is WD177x based, so may be possible to extract that part of the system at least.

Initially I was using the Sandy SuperDisk code, but now using the Trump card code. I know Rich was trying to find out who had the copyright to the TC rom to see if we could use that.

Cheers.

Phill.