The Sinclair QL Forum

vox wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:56 am s, 128K Minus video buffer leaves little to work with, in general.
QL should start with 256 to 512K, but as usual Clive wanted it to be as cheap as possible,
no matter the end user experience. Actually having 32K VRAM for separate video buffer could also help.

My question was specifically what that 19K is being used for, not a generalization about more memory, etc..

vox wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:58 amIs there other GUI and way to use "normal" Amiga/Atari mice?

Sure, use QIMI or SERmouse with an Atari mouse and PE. SERmouse may work with ICE/J.A.M./E.A.S.E. in Cursor mode.

RalfR wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 6:24 am

vox wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 1:58 amIs there other GUI and way to use "normal" Amiga/Atari mice?

Sure, use QIMI or SERmouse with an Atari mouse and PE. SERmouse may work with ICE/J.A.M./E.A.S.E. in Cursor mode.

https://ia601404.us.archive.org/0/items ... nta%29.pdf
https://qxl.win/qimi_ql_mouse.htm

But seems unavailiable today, Is there anything avail now, like e.g. vDrive?

In the past few years QIMSI was introduced, which was QIMI with SD interface. But more recently QIMSI Gold came out, which superseded QIMSI and also adds an accelerator to the QL. All attach to the ROM port. You can find it here:

viewtopic.php?t=4799

vox wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:09 amBut seems unavailiable today, Is there anything avail now, like e.g. vDrive?

Use SERmouse. Works with PE and with cursor control.

RalfR wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 3:01 pm Use SERmouse. Works with PE and with cursor control.

Problem: You can not use a serial mouse if you don't have one. And they are totally obsolete.

Here are a few suggestions with other adaptors: https://dilwyn.theqlforum.com/gen/pe/PE_ ... n_QDOS.pdf

bwinkel67 wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2024 10:28 pm Btw, adding windowing support to something like ICE wouldn't have been too difficult, since QDOS already provides the foundation for it. Basically ICE would just have had to coordinate memory for windows to refresh when overwritten, as the IO was already handled by QDOS (just that apps would have to be written to follow that...same as how they have to follow that in any other GUI).

Below was my mock-up Amiga Workbench 2.1 demo that uses the QDOS window system. The appearance of the windows and icons is just a single image, but then again, in a real window manager, the appearance of those items would be created from separate image elements, so not too far off. Yes, it's an awful color palette, but when you run it on a monochrome monitor, it looks pretty close to Workbench 2.1.


AmigaQL_400.gif


You can play with it yourself if you want. The ZIP contains an MDV with all relevant info. Just LRUN QLAmiga_bas and follow instructions it provides. Writing a simple BASIC "Hello" program in the window with the OK prompt and running it will give you the full experience.


WB21_tk2.zip

I have just tried it out and it's amazing.
I like it very much. Of course by now only in a emulator due I have not enough memory yet (expansions PCB boards are coming soon).
I want to dig deeper into it, since I could use mouse with QEmulator and this environment.

Would you mind to share the link to this project? perhaps I could get some source code in C or similar to study it.
Thanks!

Popopo wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2024 11:59 pm Would you mind to share the link to this project? perhaps I could get some source code in C or similar to study it.
Thanks!

Cool that you like it. Note that this was just a rapid prototype quickly written in a small amount of BASIC and using existing tools (the zip file included here was everything that I used). It uses QDOS window management to take care of the three pains of windows (Lines, BASIC, and AmigaShell). The Lines program is just a compiled BASIC Baton Twirler that you can get off of Dilwyn's site. The BASIC was my prototype command shell that I wrote on the QL in the early 90s and ported to the Mac. During the pandemic I converted that shell into a ZX81 ROM emulator that you can find here:

https://ZXSimulator.orgfree.com

The latest zip for that emulator is also on the forum and contains its C sources (Digital Precision's Small 'C' SE):

viewtopic.php?t=3193&start=170

My point with that was to demonstrate that, if you use the right sprites/graphics, add mouse support, it wouldn't be hard to create a Workbench-like GUI for the QL. The color theme kind of sucks (very Atari GEM like) but with a bit-mapped graphics, there's nothing preventing the interface to take on the look of any of the other 80s interfaces. You just need enough memory and if you write it efficiently, it may be able to run at QL speed.

But QDOS itself already supports a bunch of things that a GUI needs, like hosting separate resizable windows -- they just aren't buffering their output so they can re-display it (that's the part you'd have to write). In fact, it dawned on me how the base QL interface really does sort of model the UNIX one as the three windows it creates (#0, #1, and #2) kind of mimic stdin, stdout, and stderr -- notice how I overlayed all three into one to get that AmigaShell look.

I like it very much.
Is it OpenSource?
if so... how could I collaborate with it?