The Sinclair QL Forum

Which post was it?

Hmm, well Mr_Navigator opened the door a little, I pushed it open to see what the noise was, then dilwyn comes in and blows the house down!

Having worked out his frustration, next he's laying bricks for a new building!

I am well aware that some file systems hold important file information using different methods and this complicates moving files and directories/folders between file systems. The QL is not the only system where this problem exists.

I wrote:So why the flip did the QL zip files not end up with a nice "qip" or "qlp" extension? Would have saved a lot of confusion...

By this I meant, if container systems that contained QL files complete with the important QL file information (the zip) had a different extension, but otherwise were exactly the same, yes, people would still ask, what do I need to open XYZ.qip, they may even still click on it (and some OS's like Linux, would still appear to open or extract it without problems, at least until they move said files to a QL...), but I think the learning curve would be shorter. As now it would be easier to see which files are okay to unpack on your Window$/Liniux/Mac OS and which files are intended only to be unpacked on a QL or emulator. Of course, getting everyone used to this and getting all stored files to comply with this would take time and effort...

I also wrote:Did anyone ever try to set a universal standard for the QL?

This was suppose to be a past tense question... As in was it attempted before now.
As is normal in the computing world, each new system (be it hardware or software) often ends up with features that favour custom file formats. With a small community, it would indeed be very hard work to try to move away from the current situation.
However, in the longer term, if the QL, QL type machines and QL emulators are going to be usable in the long term, we need to find a better way. Floppy disks are not going to last forever and Microdrives are dying. It looks like SD cards are currently the best forward looking option.
However people coming back to the QL, or people discovering the QL for the first time (especially if they have experienced how easy it is to use CF or SD cards with other retro computers) are going to be put off with the current situation of many incompatible file systems.
Yes, in many cases, it is not practical to rewrite old emulator code, let alone modify old hardware/firmware.
The QL community is a shrinking community, do we really want to keep it that way, or do we want to ensure it survives? We could do with returning members and new blood staying
I do not know the full answer. But I would like to see a common standard file format if only for archiving / digital preservation, which can then be converted to the most used QL, QL type machine and QL emulator formats.

Mark

1024MAK wrote:But I would like to see a common standard file format if only for archiving / digital preservation, which can then be converted to the most used QL, QL type machine and QL emulator formats.

Mark

That is something I would like to see so we can start preserving software for a large historical archive. The speccy has tape and disk formats for dumping etc.

Maybe terminology needs a bit of straightening, because I guess we are talking about two different things with different requirements here:

• File System: That is a logical structure you put on a piece of media (like a floppy or hard disk, SD card, whatever. It should be as "standard" as possible to allow exchange of files between foreign OSs and QDOSMSQ. No system specific extensions (like for example QDOS file headers) whatsoever shoud be tweaked in here to assure as much compatibility and future proof-ness as possible.
  
  Today, the industry standard file system is undoubtedly MS VFAT - Can be read and written by any major OS in the world, even your camera will support it, and all QL emulators support it as well.
• Container File:That is a file that lives on a - standard - file system - It can very well contain system specific extensions in order to act as a transport vehicle when a QDOS file or set of files transit through the "outside world". It would be nice (in my opinion) if it were so much standardized that a foreign OS would be able to extract parts of it like README files and the like - ZIP is a wonderful example of such a container format supporting all the requirements mentioned. BDI, or QXL.WIN are other examples of container files that can live on a foreign file system - They just don't allow foreign OSs a view inside. And a .TAP file on the Spectrum is just another one.

So that means we already have the container file format that we need: It's zip. We shouldn't repeat the failure that was made in the Apple 68k world in inventing their own "zip-like" container format. .sit was around for quite some time and could only be un/packed on Macs. Wasn't of any use when you wanted to exchange archives between the Apple world and the rest of the Universe.

What's missing in my opinion is mainly the ability to read and write VFAT file systems on "native" QLs - The upcoming SD card solutions should as soon as possible be awarded with the ability to read and write (zip) files from VFAT-formatted file systems.

Tobias

vanpeebles wrote:Which post was it?

I cannot remember, but worth looking for as it crops up time and time again.
Will check later myself when I have a bit more time after puppy sitting.

The QL community is a shrinking community, do we really want to keep it that way, or do we want to ensure it survives? We could do with returning members and new blood staying

Mark, I don't think most QL'ers would disagree and are effectively all going in that same direction, albeit in different vehicles/speeds. I tried to do a bit when the Raspberry Pi became a 'thing' by engaging with one of the founders and putting a similar perspective regarding programming and the QL.

The chat room might help once it gets noticed more.

My long term plan is to get more QL based e-Books published on iTunes as I see that as a big market where potential QL'ers may download a book (especially free) out of curiosity of course all the appropriate links to websites will be included.

There should be a howto section...

How to move files between platforms using ZIP
How to write an S*BASIC program
How to compile an S*BASIC program
How to get video to a modern monitor
How to fix a microdrive cartridge
How to fix the 10 commonest problems with your QL (green screen, white screen)
How to get back into this whole QL thing after 20 years away - what you've missed...

Articles like that.

.... how to not ignore an important FAQ document...

It's just easier to quote the link like a mantra than it is to b!tchsl@p oldbies each time they pop up. Also, it would show up in google search results.

100% agree, Dave. At least answering queries becomes a lot easier - I was just trying to point out it won't reduce the overall amount of queries.

Tobias