Q68 support thread

The Thor, Aurora, Q40, Q60 & Q68 etc. are discussed here.
Derek_Stewart
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Hi,

Just a further note on the topic of PS/2 Splitter cables.

I recently purchased a Genius DX-110 Optical Mouse, on connecting the mouse to the Q68, via Splitter cable, stopped the Q68 booting up at the Ram Test stage, or more specifically at the point where the Q68 detects the PS/2 Mouse.

A Perixx Mouse 201-B PS/2 mouse works perfectly.

I examined the Genius DX-110 PS/2 Connector, which has these connections, it seems that the mouse connections use the Keyboard Data and Clock connections.:

Mouse Data connected to Keyboard Data 1
Mouse Clock connected to Keyboard Clock Pin 5

As shown in this diagram:
PS.png
PS.png (9.95 KiB) Viewed 8542 times
The Q68 expects the Mouse Data to be on Pin 2 and Mouse Clock on Pin 6 as per the so-called IBM standard:

This is the probable reason of the failure of PS/2 Mouse(s) (...Mice) on the Q68, the PS/2 Mouse to be connected to a PC uses the Keyboard Data and Clock connections and the PC PS/2 Controller chip on the PS/2 Interface decides whether the data supplied is keyboard or mouse and sends the data to the correct port.

In the case of the Q68, which uses Pins 2, 6 for Mouse Data and Clock signals will fail on the PC standard Mouse connections using Pins 1, 5 for Mouse Data and Clock signals.

A possible solution is to interchange Pin 1,2 and Pin 5,6 for the Q68 to use a PC PS/2 Mouse, with diodes to stop cross-linking of the respective signal lines

I will have to do some testing on this, to verify if this superstition is correct.


Regards,

Derek
martyn_hill
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by martyn_hill »

Hi Derek

I may be wrong, but I believe that both PS/2 Mice and Keyboards are expected to use the same (primary) Clock and Data pins, which would indicate that your new optical mouse is perfectly normal in this regard.

The idea of using the additional, normally N/C, pins only comes in to play with a combination PS/2 port, such as used in Q68 and some laptops, where the external splitter takes care of rerouting the secondary device's Clock and Data from it's primary pins to the secondary set of usually N/C pins in the socket.

I suspect that your other mouse is the same, and that the difference instead may lie in the current required by your newer optical mouse...

Be interesting to check my understanding here...


Derek_Stewart
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Hi,

The Perixx Mouse uses Pins 2,6 for Data and Clock, correct for the Q68.

Where as the Genius Mouse use Pins 1,5 for the Data and Clock, incorrect for the Q68, this is actualluy the PS/2 Keyboard connections, which is why some PS/2 Mouse(s) do not work, they rely on the PS/2 Controller Chip in the PC Interface to decode the data packets from the Mouse and Keyboard.

The Q68 uses separate wire connections for Mouse and Keyboard.


Regards,

Derek
martyn_hill
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by martyn_hill »

Hi again Derek

It's probably a moot point, but my own research suggests that a 'standard' PS/2 Mouse is expected to be wired same as a Keyboard (primary pins 1 & 5).

However, it seems that mice that are designed to also use the Serial/COM Port (via a passive adapter) use the secondary pair of pins 2 & 6.

This would also probably explain why some Splitters work and some don't - some will expect the 'standard' PS/2 Mouse pinout, whilst others expect the Serial/COM Port compatible PS/2 Mouse pinout... I've got an example of each type of splitter - and there are no markings to give away which type it is!

The following site gives some good info (I'm sure you've fully researched it already):

https://pinoutguide.com/InputCables/PS2 ... nout.shtml


Derek_Stewart
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Hi Martyn,

If you look in the Q68 Manual Section 2 Page 7:
Q68_PS2.png
Connection of the Mouse to a Q68 where Pin1: Mouse Data, Pin5: Mouse Clock, will cause problems as the Q68 is expecting a keyboard and can not detect the mouse.

The answer is the change connections 1 > 2, 5 > 6, maybe aa converter cable for non-Q68 PS/2 compitiable Mouse(s)

I am also looking for new PS/2 Splitters, but I can only find splitters with grey or white cabling like:
PS2.jpg
Does the colour of the cable matter?


Regards,

Derek
martyn_hill
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by martyn_hill »

Hi Derek

For sure - the 'dual-channel' PS/2 socket wiring of the Q68 is absolutely to standard.

The pertinent point here, I believe, is the presentation of the Mouse plug and from experience, supported by some research, these can take two forms - one, used in a 'pure' PS/2 Mouse (using pins 1 & 5) the other, used by those dual-protocol PS/2 + Serial/COM Port varieties (using pins 2 & 6).

To match those two diverse Mouse pinouts, we appear to have two distinct Splitters (though, never seemingly marked as such.) My experience of splitters over the years seems to corroborate this, though I didn't understand it at the time.

Furthermore, I suspect (but would need to check) that PCs with the usual arrangement of two distinct PS/2 sockets can accommodate either Mouse pinout in the second socket by either physically bridging 1-2 and 5-6, or else via some dynamic probing of the Mouse port to determine which pins to listen-to.

As for colour of the splitter - black is always nicer, but beggars can't be choosers!

It's just great to see the Q68 really begin to receive the attention it deserves :-)


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Peter
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by Peter »

martyn_hill wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 10:07 pm For sure - the 'dual-channel' PS/2 socket wiring of the Q68 is absolutely to standard.
Not quite. The Q68 swaps mouse and keyboard in comparison to the majority of PC (Laptops) which also have a dual channel PS/2 connector.
This is to allow keyboards to be attached directly without splitter - the more important device for QL use.

I know this has created some confusion, but the alternative would be to always need a splitter cable even for primitive use.


Derek_Stewart
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by Derek_Stewart »

Derek_Stewart wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 2:20 pm Hi Martyn,

If you look in the Q68 Manual Section 2 Page 7:
Q68_PS2.png

Connection of the Mouse to a Q68 where Pin1: Mouse Data, Pin5: Mouse Clock, will cause problems as the Q68 is expecting a keyboard and can not detect the mouse.

The answer is the change connections 1 > 2, 5 > 6, maybe aa converter cable for non-Q68 PS/2 compitiable Mouse(s)

I am also looking for new PS/2 Splitters, but I can only find splitters with grey or white cabling like:
PS2.jpg

Does the colour of the cable matter?
Hi,

Just tried some of the above PS/2 Splitters, which do not detect the mouse.

The only options I have to supply a PS/2 that works with the Q68 is:

Grey coloured cable:
GreyPS2.jpg

Black cable modified for the Q68 mouse:
PS2_Splitter.jpg
The black modified has 2 wires interchanged, but required Black shrink wrap to rejoin the cable.

Is this OK?

The other option is to not supp,y a PS/2 Splitter...


Regards,

Derek
Martin_Head
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by Martin_Head »

I have been trying to play with the SOUNDFILE command, using the example QL SSS sample files https://dilwyn.theqlforum.com/sound/index.html

But when I play them, they sound too fast. I also tried the sound files on the QPC2 demo, and that is very fast.

Are there different kinds of QL SSS files, or is there some way to slow them down on the Q68.


martyn_hill
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Re: Q68 support thread

Post by martyn_hill »

Hi Martin!

I can't claim any real knowledge in this area, but I am aware (as I'm sure are you) that the .ub files can come in different sampling rates and I believe the Q68 is configured for the 20kHz rate.

Is it possible that you are trying to play a ub file sampled at 10kHz at the higher rate?

Alternatively, if the ub files are recorded in mono and are played as if stereo (both at 20kHz) then you can expect a two-fold speed-up...

As far as I'm aware, the ub format doesn't actually tell you what it's recorded at, so it's probably down to the user to ensure the right SOUND device/parameters are used to match the file being played...

Or something else - I'm intrigued now, so will have a play tonight :-)
Last edited by martyn_hill on Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.


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